CEN/TC304/WG2 N448R
Date: 1995-05-05
Title: Minutes of the 8th meeting of TC304/WG2
Source: René Haentjens
Status: Adopted Minutes
SIS-ITS, Elektrum 235, Kista, Sweden
1995-04-25 13:00-17:30,
1. Opening of the meeting (Convener: Jürgen Bettels)
The convener opened the meeting and welcomed the participants. He identified N402 as the draft agenda. René Haentjens volunteered to take minutes. As there were only few participants when the meeting started, advice was asked of the TC304 secretary. Apparently there are no quorum rules for WG meetings.
2. Roll call of members
Chairman + CH: Jürgen Bettels
BE: René Haentjens
DK: Keld Simonsen
FI: Klaas Ruppel
GB: Chris Makemson
IE: Michael Everson
IS: Þorvarður Kári Ólafsson
SE: Wera Lundström
3. Adoption of agenda and identification of documents
The agenda in document N402 was adopted. The following list identifies documents and corresponding agenda item(s): N396 and N398 to 4 and 5; N391R, N437 and N384R to 7; N439 and N398 to 8. (N382 is reflected in N398.)
4. Approval of the minutes of the 7th meeting
No comments on the minutes in N396R. The minutes of the ad-hoc meeting (N398) do not need WG2 approval; they seem OK anyway. There is a typing error in both documents (N396, section 1.5 and 5, and N398, sections 1.1 and 5): in AI9411-09, replace 169 by 639 .
5. Review of action items (N396 section 5 and N398 section 5)
AI9406-02: Open, but to be closed soon. Fonts are 75% outline and 25% bitmap. They are shareware, but free for standardization purposes. For Swedish work on fonts, refer to Peter Svanberg and Olle
Järnefors.
AI9406-16: Closed for WG2, open for TC304 liaison to SC22/WG15. Þorvarður Kári Ólafsson explains that Iceland's main problem is with date formats. Iceland needs 8 fallback levels. Another problem is that transliteration is not covered (e.g. multilevel fallback). Input of dates is also not currently foreseen, this would require new APIs for C and C++. The whole issue will get a new dimension through the PT01 report: see new version to be issued in May, part IV, proposed work
programme.
AI9406-17, and -18: Open - waiting for finalization of 2.1 structure.
AI9411-01: Closed - see N437, annex F.
AI9411-04: Open, see agenda 7, discussion on 2.2.
AI9411-07: Open.
AI9411-09: Changed to AI9504-01: Michael Everson to make a proposal to WG2; once approved, WG2 will ask TC304 to forward the proposal to the ISO 639 maintainer.
AI9411-11: Closed for WG2, on-going informal activity for Keld Simonsen.
AI9502-01: Changed to AI9504-02:fiorvar>ur Ólafsson to ask
SC22/WG20. (See also N411)
AI9502-02, -03, -04, -05, -06, and -07: Closed. (AI9502-03 is included in
AI9406-16.)
AI9502-08: Open.
AI9502-09, and -10: Closed.
AI9502-11: Open.
AI9502-12: Changed to: Michael Everson will ask YIVO Institute in New York.
AI9502-13, -14, -15, -16, and -17: Open. (On -14: N384R contains
some info on German punctuation.)
AI9502-18: Closed: (1) no, Kapuchin is the same language as
Bezhta; (2) Kanux is a dialect of Dargwa.
AI9502-19, and -20: Open.
AI9502-21: Closed for WG2. Will be provided to WG4.
6. Liaisons
Chris Makemson reported about EWOS/AEGIS (Ad-hoc Expert Group on Global Information Infrastructure). They have started activities and found many items related to multilinguality. As this is in its early stages, coordination with TC304 should be easy. Chris Makemson will provide us with the output of the next EWOS/AEGIS meeting in June (AI9504-03) and then TC304 can request coordination in its next meeting.
Keld Simonsen will report next time on the future meetings of SC22/WG15 and /WG20 - these groups had no meetings since our last WG2 meeting.
7. TC304 Project 2: Registration ENV for cultural elements (2.1) and TR for cultural elements (2.2) (editor for both: Keld Simonsen)
N437 is the new 2.1 draft. It contains a new annex, and also the modifications suggested at the meeting for the disposition of comments - see N391R. The participants found the new version to be OK.
Michael Everson had some new editorial comments and asked that the correct font be used for Irish.
Þorvarður Kári Ólafsson had some comments on clause 6.2 and on annex F. The discussion lead to the recommendation formulated in N440 (drafted after the WG2 meeting). The sentence This is a POSIX category will be moved to the end of the clauses in annex F.
Þorvarður Kári Ólafsson stated that POSIX is OK and doesn't need to be replaced by 9945-2 ; this will be verified by the CEN editor anyway. The alphabet must be described in clause 6.2 item 9.
Keld Simonsen introduced the German comments in N384R. Their suggestion on 5.1 was accepted, (a) and (b) have been reversed. The new items proposed for 6.2 have now been covered: postal codes in item 25, bank ID in item 28, telephone and FAX in item 24, quotation and punctuation in item 13. However, WG2 decides to keep the item list fixed (not open-ended) and to invite member bodies to use the normal ENV revision mechanism for improvements.
There is no draft yet for 2.2. Keld Simonsen has a lot of information already, but WG2 decides to wait with the TR. The member bodies should first get a chance to make formal submissions. Meanwhile, WG2 suggests to Keld Simonsen to make his info available as a WG2 or TC document. Michael Everson will translate POSIX specs to a narrative description. (See AI9411-04 and AI9406-17.)
Klaas Ruppel asked whether after the transposition of ISO 8601 to EN 28601, it is still allowed to register other date formats. Apparently, this is a question of scope: (2)8601 is for international communication, national formats can still be used and registered. The (2)8601 format can be registered in a European locale.
8. TC304 Project 11: Character repertoires for natural languages (editor: Michael Everson)
The new draft is N439. It contains a typo on page 1: replace prENV by prTR .
The draft is not yet ready for TC enquiry. There are many action items outstanding that require input from Gerhard Budin. Michael Everson will try to contact Gerhard Budin by phone. Meanwhile, this project is on a slow burner...
WG1 has asked for a more formal wording of the scope (page 3). Jürgen Bettels suggested to mark unwritten languages (page 4). The criterium should be:
newspapers, books and use in school; scholarly phonetic systems don't count. The source of the info on page 6 has been borrowed by Gerhard Budin and Michael Everson hopes that he will get it back soon. Page 8 will be done after the first section is finished. Annex A is OK except for Esperanto.
Annex C: Abkhazia has now joined Russia. There are other political considerations, but WG2 has a closed issue on keeping this information in an annex.
Annex D will be done later. There will be many characters not currently in 10646.
Michael Everson will contact the European Bureau of Lesser Used Languages (AI9504-04).
9. Homework for next meeting
See documents N449 and N451 (drafted after the WG2 meeting).
10. Next meeting
Half a day during the next meeting week.
11. Other business
None.
12. Close of meeting
Jürgen Bettels thanked the members for their presence and work and closed the meeting.